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#3890 - 09/17/03 05:14 AM Re: Ocelot control of ceiling fan
Jim Beersman Offline
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Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 158
Loc: Springfield, MO
Guy, I just check my FCC # and it matches what was posted.

Just Another Joe,

I paid $29.99 and the local Home Depot for the Hampton Bay remote. That's one of the reasons I bought two. If anyone is interested the Home Depot part number is: 838 956.
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#3891 - 09/17/03 06:37 AM Re: Ocelot control of ceiling fan
Brian Raynor Offline
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Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 454
Loc: Columbia, SC
Guy,

To clarify, they actually make the remotes that are DESIGNED to be installed in a standard JBox. No modification required.

I tried to post the link to the info on one from Home Depot, but the URL was so long that the thing here didn't let me. You can try going to http://www.homedepot.com and then clicking on "Lighting and Fans" in the left side, and go from there to find it. Here's an attempt at linking to the picture on the site (shorter URL):



Lowe's carries one that looks better and has more buttons, but could not find it on their web site.

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#3892 - 09/17/03 09:25 AM Re: Ocelot control of ceiling fan
John Warner Offline
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Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 834
Loc: Port Perry, Ontario, Canada
Brian:

That solves the problem of having to mess with the pull-chains but imo is not nearly as sexy as a hand-held remote (especially in a bedroom where you'd have to get out of bed to operate it).

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#3893 - 09/17/03 02:06 PM Re: Ocelot control of ceiling fan
Brian Raynor Offline
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Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 454
Loc: Columbia, SC
John, true I agree. But it does solve those who want the control from the wall without having something unsightly (the remote in a bracket).

Also it should make it easy to add the circuitry Guy developed and have it hidden away inside the wall cavity.

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#3894 - 09/17/03 06:41 PM Re: Ocelot control of ceiling fan
Just Another Joe Offline
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Registered: 09/02/03
Posts: 204
Loc: Adanac
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Guy Lavoie:
[qb]...with a fixed resistor instead of the trim pot. Good news, the trim pot (and oscilloscope adjustment) is not needed. The receiver is tolerant enough that a fixed resistor with up to 20% error will work fine.[/qb][/QUOTE]Guy, that's great news for all of us who don't have 'scopes . Thanks!
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#3895 - 09/17/03 06:49 PM Re: Ocelot control of ceiling fan
Just Another Joe Offline
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Registered: 09/02/03
Posts: 204
Loc: Adanac
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jim Beersman:
[qb]Just Another Joe,

I paid $29.99 and the local Home Depot for the Hampton Bay remote. That's one of the reasons I bought two. If anyone is interested the Home Depot part number is: 838 956.[/qb][/QUOTE]Jim, yep, that appears to be the one I saw at Home Depot for $45CDN, which is about right for $30US. I couldn't find the $28 Wal-Mart special on the Wal-Mart site--it may not be sold in the US, but if it is, it should be about $18. It looks very similar to the remote included with this Wal-Mart fan:

Wal-Mart Ceiling Fan with Remote
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#3896 - 09/21/03 10:31 PM Re: Ocelot control of ceiling fan
Just Another Joe Offline
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Registered: 09/02/03
Posts: 204
Loc: Adanac
Okay, I got the first of my 'Wal-Mart special' ceiling fan remote controls installed this weekend, in the master bedroom. It works great (with one exception, as noted below). It turns the lights on/off, turns the fan on/off, and sets the fan's speed to high, medium, or low. The fan is completely silent (except for the howling wind )--no hum at all.

The one problem is that the lights cannot be dimmed. Pressing the dim button on the remote, causes the fan to switch to low speed, from whatever state it was in (including 'off'). All functions operate correctly from the wall switch, including dimming and fan speed, which indicates that the wiring is correct. It's obviously a problem with either the transmitter, or the receiver.

Having X10 control (via Ocelot), will be great--will be able to control from both sides of the bed, without passing the remote .
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#3897 - 09/22/03 04:05 AM Re: Ocelot control of ceiling fan
John Warner Offline
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Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 834
Loc: Port Perry, Ontario, Canada
Hmmm

I have both mine installed and both work great!

Sounds like a trip back to WalMart to do a swap?

I don't have the "passing of the remote" problem since I take orders very well!

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#3898 - 09/22/03 04:36 AM Re: Ocelot control of ceiling fan
Just Another Joe Offline
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Registered: 09/02/03
Posts: 204
Loc: Adanac
[QUOTE]Originally posted by John Warner:
[qb]Sounds like a trip back to WalMart to do a swap?[/qb][/QUOTE]John, yes that would be the usual procedure, and I normally wouldn't hesitate an instant. But installing this thing was a bear [not the fault of the unit, just the huge amount of work in getting it done], and I really, _really_, *really* don't want to have to through all that again, to get the receiver out in order to swap it :eek: .

The next one goes in the work room, where I am using compact fluorescent bulbs for cost/energy/heat savings. It would really be no problem if the dimmer didn't work in that one, since I can't dim those bulbs anyway. But again, rather than take the first receiver out, I think I would rather just live without the dimming .

Something I will try is using the second remote set to the same code as the installed unit, which will tell me whether the first remote is bad. If so, perhaps I could get Wal-Mart to exchange it without having to pull the receiver . But, it may just as easily be the receiver at fault, as the transmitter.
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#3899 - 09/22/03 05:12 AM Re: Ocelot control of ceiling fan
Guy Lavoie Administrator Offline
Beyond All Hope
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Registered: 12/21/02
Posts: 6548
Loc: Montreal, QC, Canada
Joe, if you want to see the schematic for the Ocelot IR out to RF remote connection, just send me your email address (click on my name to see my own address).
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#3900 - 09/22/03 07:00 AM Re: Ocelot control of ceiling fan
John Warner Offline
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Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 834
Loc: Port Perry, Ontario, Canada
Yah - mine were a bit of a bear (teddy bear) to install because they are such a tight fit in the shroud. The other pain was standing on the bed and looking and reaching up - then of course the x#^%&* fan blades always seemed to want to be right where I needed to be looking.

I used a ladder for the second one that helped some (although the bed is where you'd want the ladder to really be).

Having said that, now that I've done two of them and know what I'm doing, I think swapping one out would be fairly quick and easy?

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#3901 - 09/22/03 06:21 PM Re: Ocelot control of ceiling fan
Just Another Joe Offline
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Registered: 09/02/03
Posts: 204
Loc: Adanac
[QUOTE]Originally posted by John Warner:
[qb]Having said that, now that I've done two of them and know what I'm doing, I think swapping one out would be fairly quick and easy?[/qb][/QUOTE]John, yes, after the first, the remaining ones should go much better. Our bed has castors, so I rolled the bed out of the way, and so was able to climb up. But it's still do it all over again to take the faulty receiver out, and put everything back. Then, take it back to Wal-Mart and, since this store didn't have any more, they would have to order it--if they can even get any more. Then it's do it all over again to put the new one in !

I would do it if I were really desiring the missing function, but dimming isn't that important to me in this location anyway. We tend to use the lamps more than the ceiling light in that room, and they are all on X10 control, so we can still have our low lighting !

Just to add that I did try the other remote transmitter, and it gave exactly the same results, so it would appear that the fault is definately in the receiver.
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#3902 - 09/22/03 06:30 PM Re: Ocelot control of ceiling fan
Just Another Joe Offline
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Registered: 09/02/03
Posts: 204
Loc: Adanac
Guy, thanks for the schematic!

You said you learned the remote's commands for all sixteen possible settings. I take it you are refering to the sixteen codes that the remote can be set to with the internal dip switches? If so, that's great, as it will allow control of all of one's fans . Will that file be available on this site?
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#3903 - 09/22/03 06:59 PM Re: Ocelot control of ceiling fan
Guy Lavoie Administrator Offline
Beyond All Hope
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Registered: 12/21/02
Posts: 6548
Loc: Montreal, QC, Canada
That would be the best way. What I think I'll do is write this whole thing up as a HA project and get Dan Boone to put the schematic, IR file, picture of remote mod, etc. in the projects forum. In the mean time, I'll just send you the lir file shortly (and to anyone else who requests it).
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#3904 - 09/22/03 07:59 PM Re: Ocelot control of ceiling fan
Just Another Joe Offline
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Registered: 09/02/03
Posts: 204
Loc: Adanac
Got it--thanks, Guy. Now I'll have to get busy !
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#3905 - 01/18/05 10:07 AM Re: Ocelot control of ceiling fan
BorisB Offline
newbie


Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 9
Loc: Pottsylvania
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Guy Lavoie:
[qb]What I think I'll do is write this whole thing up as a HA project and get Dan Boone to put the schematic, IR file, picture of remote mod, etc. in the projects forum.[/qb][/QUOTE]Just dredging this up from the dead. I checked the Projects Forum and there was no mention of it. Any chance of you putting this together, Guy? Even though it's freezing cold right now in most of North America, I'm sure people will be thinking about ceiling fan control again shortly. The ability to control multiple fans from a SECU16IR is just the excuse I need... to buy a SECU16IR!
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#3906 - 01/18/05 11:45 AM Re: Ocelot control of ceiling fan
Guy Lavoie Administrator Offline
Beyond All Hope
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Registered: 12/21/02
Posts: 6548
Loc: Montreal, QC, Canada
The problem with this project is that it is so device specific. To qualify your own project, check these things:

- Do you have a spare remote that could be used as the Ocelot's RF emitter.

- If so, are you handy enough with an oscilloscope (and do you have a scope?) to find the spot in the remote where the controller chip puts out the signal envelope and sends it to the RF oscillator?
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#3907 - 01/19/05 10:27 AM Re: Ocelot control of ceiling fan
BorisB Offline
newbie


Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 9
Loc: Pottsylvania
Guy,

While I don't have a scope, It's not really needed to find the spot in the remote where the signal is emanating from. This photo (linked from a site of someone else's project of compuer fan control) shows the component side of a remote control and transmitter readily available at Home Depot for $24.95 (store SKU# 191671). The chip on this board is an Encoder/Decoder chip from MosDesign ( link to datasheet), which has an output to an RF or IR transmitter on Pin 17. The RF section of the board seems entirely confined to the left edge of the circuit board.

Now that we know there the signal is, what's next? How can I learn the remote codes into the Ocelot? What is the schematic for the circuit you built to accept the output of the Ocelot (or SECU16IR) and simulate what Pin 17 of the M1E is sending to the RF section?
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#3908 - 01/19/05 11:08 AM Re: Ocelot control of ceiling fan
Guy Lavoie Administrator Offline
Beyond All Hope
*****

Registered: 12/21/02
Posts: 6548
Loc: Montreal, QC, Canada
I guess that you could at least do a feasability test by trying to learn the RF code envelopes into the Ocelot. To do that, you need to hook up the remote's envelope out signal (apparently pin 17 in your case) to the Ocelot's IR in. Assuming that this is an active high signal, you could use a simple open collector NPN transistor to do this. It would look like this:

[CODE] stereo mini plug
to Ocelot
+------tip
(inside remote) /C
B|/
pin 17----2.2k resistor---| 2N3904 or 2N2222
|
E
|
common----------------------+-------middle ring
no connection to outer ring
[/CODE]Using this hookup, you would use C-Max to initiate learning a IR code (leave the default IR frequency) and then press a button for about 1 second. If it works, the red learning window whould close. You shoud then use IR-Max to look at the code envelope. It should look like an IR code envelope, with a long lead-in pulse and then several smaller pulses.

If you can get this working, then you could try the circuit to transmit. I'd have to locate my diagram it but basically, its a 555 timer configured as a missing pulse detector. It demodulates the envelope so that you get a signal envelope just like pin 17 of the chip you mentioned apparently does.
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#3909 - 01/20/05 06:55 PM Re: Ocelot control of ceiling fan
BorisB Offline
newbie


Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 9
Loc: Pottsylvania
Guy,

Okay, I built that circuit and ran the test on three buttons of the remote. I was able to capture something for each one, and when I looked at it in IRMAX using the Graph function, each one had 7 series of pulses. I guess this means I found the correct pin in the Encoder IC. Now all I need is the circuit that plugs into the Ocelot IR out. Were you able to find it?
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