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#19889 - 05/06/08 03:29 AM Re: ADI New Equipment [Re: Guy Lavoie]
Deane Johnson Offline
enthusiast


Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 204
Loc: Omaha, Nebraska
Now that schematic pulls it all together. I see they've moved ahead to the miniature tubes with the 12AX7. Frankly, I prefer something in better shielding metal like the 6J7, but I suppose you can't stop progress.

It seems the EI-EIOU, is a sign of things to come. Doing some recent research on the new HA communication schemes, Z-Wave, UPB, and the like, I certainly don't want to purchase any more X-10 gear, and Ocelot can't do any of the new stuff, so I'm hoping for good news out of Branson soon on the Ocelot replacement.

In looking around at what's available, there is nothing on the market I can find that's even in the league of Ocelot/ADI. It just needs to jump ahead about 10 years.

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#20002 - 06/09/08 11:31 AM Re: ADI New Equipment [Re: Deane Johnson]
Chris Offline
junior


Registered: 01/05/04
Posts: 41
Loc: NY
From the information above, ADI's planned upgrade path is Ocelot/Leopard -> Firecat -> EI017. Like many others here, I have a substantial investment in existing ADI infrastructure and am looking forward to migrating to the new platform. ADI will certainly make sure that there are no issues with backward compatability, but I would like to understand what enhanced features will be available and at what point. I have started implementing Insteon equipment for new applications as well as upgrades, and find myself severely hampered due to lack of integration with my ADI network. What should I be doing right now to prepare for the next generation of ADI technology?
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#20007 - 06/12/08 09:02 PM Re: ADI New Equipment [Re: Chris]
JeffVolp Offline
active contributor
*****

Registered: 01/26/03
Posts: 185
Loc: St. George, Utah
It is clear that the Ocelot is past its prime, but it has been a very reliable system. Its ability to monitor real world parameters provides the ability to design systems that intelligently track environmental changes. There are several other systems that offer similar capabilities, but all are much more expensive. I selected the Ocelot shortly after its introduction because it offered the best value, and I have not regretted that decision.

X10 offers a similar value. It is also past its prime, and effort must be taken to provide an accommodating electrical environment to achieve the highest reliability. Even if I had the option to clean sheet today, I would still opt for X10 because of the rich selection of automation devices available that support that protocol.

Virtually 100% reliability can be achieved if one provides adequate signal levels throughout the home, and electrical noise from hostile equipment is prevented from polluting the electrical environment. X10 has been with us for 30 years. How many of today’s competing technologies will still be with us in the coming decades? It can be expensive if one makes the wrong choice.
_________________________
X-10 automation since the BSR days

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#20060 - 07/06/08 06:10 PM Re: ADI New Equipment [Re: JeffVolp]
Msradell Offline
journeyman


Registered: 08/19/07
Posts: 73
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky
Jeff, I too have been using X-10 since the BSR days. Unlike you I've seen X-10 reliability deteriorate over time. I believe the biggest problem is interference from many sources. As we have more more electronics in our homes levels of interference increase proportionately in this is something that the X-10 format is very intolerant of. I truly believe the time to replace X-10 has arrived. I'm leaning toward Insteon but have been waiting ADI to decide what system(s) they will support in the future. Since they have failed to who make this commitment I'm about ready to dump their system and go elsewhere. It seems like they have no desire to progress in technology.
_________________________
I've learned that there is a fine line between genius and insanity

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#20062 - 07/07/08 04:37 AM Re: ADI New Equipment [Re: Msradell]
Deane Johnson Offline
enthusiast


Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 204
Loc: Omaha, Nebraska
The replacement for X-10 certainly provides an additional and interesting discussion. I've been looking at each of them for awhile now, trying to figure out which would be the better to go with.

Insteon certainly provides a broad range of equipment at reasonable prices. I've sort of pushed it to the background for a couple of reasons. One being it's once again based on a powerline transmission scheme. The other being Smarthome products history of unreliability. I've sent many Smarthome switches and modules to the land fill because they lose their programing with power dropouts. I understand Insteon, at least at the beginning, had the similar issues. I don't want to go through that again.

UPB is again powerline based and expensive. PCS products have been very reliabile with X-10 however. I am concerned with how broad based it will become.

Z-Wave is not powerline based and is becoming more universal in it's availability. Still expensive like UPB. I even saw a battery operated signal device (for doors opening or something) the other day. That really got my attention, being able to have low drain products completely independent of the powerline.

So, I'm sort of leaning towards Z-Wave, but I'm still not sure about it.

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#20156 - 07/29/08 06:01 PM Re: ADI New Equipment [Re: Chris Anderson]
Chris Anderson Offline
addict


Registered: 01/08/04
Posts: 507
Loc: Michigan
Wow - this innocent little discussion I started a couple years ago now has over 100 replies and over 14,000 (that's fourteen THOUSAND) views. Guess there's no interest in new ADI stuff. C'mon Addicon - the dogs are hungry. Please feed the dogs (and me)! Chris \:\)
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#20162 - 07/30/08 06:55 AM Re: ADI New Equipment [Re: Chris Anderson]
Deane Johnson Offline
enthusiast


Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 204
Loc: Omaha, Nebraska
I hate to be too negative in posts towards ADI, after all they've given us an exclusive product that does what others don't, it's simple and straightforward in concept, it's highly reliable, the support is excellent, the price is affordable.

But, I do think we need to encourage ADI every way we can to update the product to include the newer technologies. Otherwise, we're dead in our tracks.

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#20291 - 09/22/08 04:26 AM Re: ADI New Equipment [Re: Deane Johnson]
John Warner Offline
old hand
*****

Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 834
Loc: Port Perry, Ontario, Canada
The most unfortunate part of it all is people are losing interest in HA. I used to check this board several times daily but with nothing new for so many years I only check a few times a week.

Those that are still keen on HA seem to be switching to other products. The ADI die-hards (like me) have just moved on to other interests.

Sad...

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#20292 - 09/22/08 08:13 AM Re: ADI New Equipment [Re: John Warner]
JeffVolp Offline
active contributor
*****

Registered: 01/26/03
Posts: 185
Loc: St. George, Utah
There are a lot of people still using X10 equipment, and the X10 forum is very active. Perhaps there are so few posts here because the Ocelot/Leopard is so reliable. The last real problem I had was due to our legislators moving the DST changeover dates.

There were reports of ADI working on new equipment a couple of years ago, but that seems to have died on the vine.

Jeff
_________________________
X-10 automation since the BSR days

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#20305 - 09/23/08 10:16 AM Re: ADI New Equipment [Re: JeffVolp]
Chris Anderson Offline
addict


Registered: 01/08/04
Posts: 507
Loc: Michigan
Even my luck with reliability has run dry. I've purchased a couple Ocelots recently (new) and returned one under warranty. Problems include X-10 storm and just plain conking out. The last one lasted a few months then quit communicating with the other modules over RS-485 and I can no longer "attach" to the unit in Cmax. I think I have an old unit that might work but, as I recall, that one might be the one that created the X-10 storms. I'm actually getting tired of wasting my money on this stuff. John captuted exactly the way I feel a couple posts ago. Chris
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#20326 - 09/30/08 08:51 AM Re: ADI New Equipment [Re: Chris Anderson]
bakers12 Offline
journeyman


Registered: 06/06/04
Posts: 80
Loc: Chicago
I would put a lot of effort into developing my Ocelot application if the Ocelot was advancing at all. We had hopes in the past for the ability to build X-10 commands based on variables. That never happened. There's no ability to read variables like an array. I've used all the facilities the C-Max language has to offer me. I can't improve my application until C-Max steps up.
_________________________
Have fun storming the castle!

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#20334 - 10/01/08 08:59 AM Re: ADI New Equipment [Re: bakers12]
Laz Offline
newbie


Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 24
Loc: Ottawa, Ontario
I wish that ADI would make their ADNET protocol available this way some of us with hardware and software knowledge could develop modules instead of waiting for ADI to keep promising new products without actually delivering.
_________________________
Life is short so Automate it!

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#20336 - 10/03/08 07:09 AM Re: ADI New Equipment [Re: Chris Anderson]
JeffVolp Offline
active contributor
*****

Registered: 01/26/03
Posts: 185
Loc: St. George, Utah
 Originally Posted By: Chris Anderson
Even my luck with reliability has run dry. I've purchased a couple Ocelots recently (new) and returned one under warranty. Problems include X-10 storm and just plain conking out. The last one lasted a few months then quit communicating with the other modules over RS-485 and I can no longer "attach" to the unit in Cmax.


The RS-485 problem often reported here might be due to the lack of a common ground between modules. The RS485 drivers in this equipment seem to have a very high failure rate. We used similar drivers in a number of military systems, including returning signals from the fore and aft compartments of one class of US submarines. As I recall, the only failure reported was due to 120V inadvertently connected to the serial link. The main difference is that we always run a common ground between all units.

Jeff
_________________________
X-10 automation since the BSR days

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#20337 - 10/05/08 12:22 AM Re: ADI New Equipment [Re: JeffVolp]
Robert Jenkins Offline
active contributor


Registered: 07/08/03
Posts: 122
Loc: Worksop, UK
Laz & Jeff,

the lack of a common ground inbetween devices is a serious problem & something I've mentioned a time or two before..
Next on from that is the lack of bus termination.

The simple solution is to use a single 'big' (few amps) 12V DC supply for the whole system, as this prevents the unit ground floating & keeps them in the working range.

You can also fit a different make of pin-compatible RS-485 driver chip, there is one I found that is far more resistant to damage by noise & static etc. on the bus - I can't remember the number offhand but it is in one of my old posts.

On the overall progress with new ADI hardware, I've taken to only looking in every few months, that way things seem to change a bit...
_________________________
Robert Jenkins.

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#20338 - 10/05/08 07:31 AM Re: ADI New Equipment [Re: Robert Jenkins]
Chris Anderson Offline
addict


Registered: 01/08/04
Posts: 507
Loc: Michigan
Robert, Jeff,

My solution was as Robert suggested. A couple years back I put my whole system on one gigantic power supply. My current problem is weird. The Ocelot dies (all LED's go out) but when I wiggle the power supply, it comes back to life. The LED on the power supply is lit the whole time and all the other components on powered up by the unit stay on. I'm suspecting a bad connection at the back of the PS for the leg powering the Ocelot. Plan on working on it today.

Robert, as far as checking for new product every couple months you may want to step it up to every few years. ADI seems to be out of product development. I wish they would open the Adnet protocol to third party vendors, as someone had suggested. Then maybe someone could come up with UPB Bobcat, etc.

Chris

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#20339 - 10/05/08 02:26 PM Re: ADI New Equipment [Re: Chris Anderson]
Chris Anderson Offline
addict


Registered: 01/08/04
Posts: 507
Loc: Michigan
Well, the power supply connection turned out to be the problem. However, when I plugged the power supply back in, several modules were not visible in Cmax. So I tried to auto address the system, which usually corrects this problem. Except on some attempts the lights on certain modules would not blink fast. On other attempts other modules lights would not blink fast. Finally I unplugged the power supply and plugged it back in. This was only successful in killing my Rly8 - all three LED's off even though there's 12v on the power terminals. I can't believe how fragile this stuff is. That's exactly how my last Rly8 died. Looks like I'm out another 150 bucks. Another fun day with my Adicon equipment. Chris
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#20340 - 10/05/08 02:40 PM Re: ADI New Equipment [Re: Chris Anderson]
Chris Anderson Offline
addict


Registered: 01/08/04
Posts: 507
Loc: Michigan
While I'm on a roll let's inventory my Adicon equipment currently on the dead list:

An Ocelot you can't attach to with comms light steady red
A humidity Bobcat that always reads 0
A temp Bobcat that always reads 139F (I live in Michigan)
A Rly8 that died several months ago
A Rly8 that died tonight

I'm still hopeful it might come back to life. Seems I remember the first Rly8 went through an episode like this but came back once or twice before it died.

Anyway, just venting I guess. I like the Adicon equipment but seem to have more than my fair share of problems with it. Cheers - Chris

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#20341 - 10/06/08 08:27 AM Re: ADI New Equipment [Re: Chris Anderson]
Deane Johnson Offline
enthusiast


Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 204
Loc: Omaha, Nebraska
Interesting that you've had so many things die Chris. I've been luckier. I've had an Ocelot, 2 Relay 8's, and and Secu16 in service for 6 or 7 years now and never had one thing glitch.

My problem is that I can't move ahead into Z-Wave until ADI gets some new stuff out.

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#20342 - 10/06/08 08:41 AM Re: ADI New Equipment [Re: Deane Johnson]
Chris Anderson Offline
addict


Registered: 01/08/04
Posts: 507
Loc: Michigan
Deane - I'm very envious ! \:\)

Chris

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#20343 - 10/06/08 03:39 PM Re: ADI New Equipment [Re: Chris Anderson]
Chris Anderson Offline
addict


Registered: 01/08/04
Posts: 507
Loc: Michigan
Hmmm - the Rly8 miraculously came back to life on its own. No LED's were lit or blinking. Came home from work and the active LED was on and I think the comms LED was blinking slow. So I auto-addressed the system and the Rly8 is recognized. Progress! But the Secu16 LED won't blink fast when I auto-address the network and both slave Leo's are not recognized. Guess I'll let the system rest for another night and try again tomorrow.

Chris

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