ADICON Support Forum Applied Digital, Inc.
Page 1 of 3 123>
Topic Options
#18071 - 04/15/07 10:19 AM Supervised inputs on SECU16
jerny Offline
junior
*

Registered: 03/17/07
Posts: 36
I have my SECU16 hooked up correctly. It is module #2 connected to my Ocelot. (Module #1 is a SECU16-IR, which is working fine). I am able to see the SECU16 using the CPUXA software. I am using it to control an AP800 device made by Gentner Clearone, which is a microphone mixer/echo canceller.

The AP800 has 25 programmable pins. I have no trouble setting the input pins on the AP800 to be controlled by outputs on the SECU16. I connect an input pin on the AP800 directly to an output pin on the SECU16, and I connect the ground on the AP800 to the paired output pin on the SECU16, and when I turn on the corresponding relay using the CPUXA software, the signal is immediately received and processed by the AP800. It alls works great!

However, the AP800 also has a number of output pins, and I'd like to be able to monitor their status using the SECU16. Unfortunately, this is where my problem lies. No matter what I do on the AP800, the input pins on the SECU16 always read ON in the CPUXA software, so something is wrong.

From reading other posts on this board, I thought to check parameter 4 on the SECU16. It is properly set to 0.

In truth, I'm not much of an eletronics guy, so I probably have it wired incorrectly. Please help! Here's what I have:

A wire from the status pin to I/O #0 on the SECU16. A wire from I/O #0 on the SECU16 to a 1k ohm resistor which is connected directly to a common pin on the SECU16. I have the jumper for I/O #0 set to supervised input. Is my wiring correct?

Thanks,
Jerny

Top
#18072 - 04/15/07 01:38 PM Re: Supervised inputs on SECU16 [Re: jerny]
Guy Lavoie Administrator Offline
Beyond All Hope
*****

Registered: 12/21/02
Posts: 6548
Loc: Montreal, QC, Canada
Could you try the following tests (if you have a voltmeter handy)? With nothing connected to the input except the 1k resistor (connected between the input and common), measure the voltage across the resistor. Do you get something close to 2.5 volts? If not, what do you actually read?

Could you also try and find out what the "output pins" of the AP800 actually put out? They could be contact closures, open collector outputs, a voltage, etc).
_________________________
"If you don't know what you're doing, do it neatly..."

Top
#18073 - 04/15/07 03:14 PM Re: Supervised inputs on SECU16 [Re: Guy Lavoie]
jerny Offline
junior
*

Registered: 03/17/07
Posts: 36
Quote:

Could you try the following tests (if you have a voltmeter handy)? With nothing connected to the input except the 1k resistor (connected between the input and common), measure the voltage across the resistor. Do you get something close to 2.5 volts? If not, what do you actually read?

Could you also try and find out what the "output pins" of the AP800 actually put out? They could be contact closures, open collector outputs, a voltage, etc).




Guy, thanks for helping me to debug this. My multimeter has a minimum DCV scale of 15V, and when I do as you describe (connect a wire from an input on the SECU16 to a 1k ohm resistor to a common), the needle on my multimeter actually moves from 0 to something slightly to the left of zero. Incidentally, when I measure the resistance across the resistor, the needles shows something between 1,000 and 2,000 ohms.

With regard to what the AP800 puts out, the manual says the following: "Most of the pins on these connector can be programmed to perform any function via a closure to ground." In addition, there are two non-programmable pins that simply output 5Vdc. Here's a link to the manual: http://www.clearone.com/docs/manuals/800-150-001-Rev3.0_AP800Man.pdf

Does this supply any clues?

Top
#18074 - 04/15/07 03:22 PM Re: Supervised inputs on SECU16 [Re: jerny]
jerny Offline
junior
*

Registered: 03/17/07
Posts: 36
Quote:

Quote:

Could you try the following tests (if you have a voltmeter handy)? With nothing connected to the input except the 1k resistor (connected between the input and common), measure the voltage across the resistor. Do you get something close to 2.5 volts? If not, what do you actually read?

Could you also try and find out what the "output pins" of the AP800 actually put out? They could be contact closures, open collector outputs, a voltage, etc).




Guy, thanks for helping me to debug this. My multimeter has a minimum DCV scale of 15V, and when I do as you describe (connect a wire from an input on the SECU16 to a 1k ohm resistor to a common), the needle on my multimeter actually moves from 0 to something slightly to the left of zero. Incidentally, when I measure the resistance across the resistor, the needles shows something between 1,000 and 2,000 ohms.

With regard to what the AP800 puts out, the manual says the following: "Most of the pins on these connector can be programmed to perform any function via a closure to ground." In addition, there are two non-programmable pins that simply output 5Vdc. Here's a link to the manual: http://www.clearone.com/docs/manuals/800-150-001-Rev3.0_AP800Man.pdf

Does this supply any clues?




I just re-tried the resistance measurement across the resistor in the above configuration, and it's actually about 300 ohms of resistance, not 1,000 to 2,000 as I wrote above. When I remove the resistor from the set up and just measure the resistance across it, it shows up as precisely 1,000 ohms as expected. Strangely, the resistance seems lower in the configuration above.

Top
#18075 - 04/15/07 08:12 PM Re: Supervised inputs on SECU16 [Re: jerny]
ken-h Online   content
active contributor


Registered: 01/13/03
Posts: 106
Loc: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Quote:

Quote:

Could you try the following tests (if you have a voltmeter handy)? With nothing connected to the input except the 1k resistor (connected between the input and common), measure the voltage across the resistor. Do you get something close to 2.5 volts? If not, what do you actually read?

Could you also try and find out what the "output pins" of the AP800 actually put out? They could be contact closures, open collector outputs, a voltage, etc).




Guy, thanks for helping me to debug this. My multimeter has a minimum DCV scale of 15V, and when I do as you describe (connect a wire from an input on the SECU16 to a 1k ohm resistor to a common), the needle on my multimeter actually moves from 0 to something slightly to the left of zero. Incidentally, when I measure the resistance across the resistor, the needles shows something between 1,000 and 2,000 ohms.

With regard to what the AP800 puts out, the manual says the following: "Most of the pins on these connector can be programmed to perform any function via a closure to ground." In addition, there are two non-programmable pins that simply output 5Vdc. Here's a link to the manual: http://www.clearone.com/docs/manuals/800-150-001-Rev3.0_AP800Man.pdf

Does this supply any clues?




jerny

If you are using an analog meter and the meter deflects the wrong way try to reverse the leads to check the voltage.
_________________________
Ken H To Automate is all right.

Top
#18076 - 04/15/07 08:22 PM Re: Supervised inputs on SECU16 [Re: ken-h]
jerny Offline
junior
*

Registered: 03/17/07
Posts: 36
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Could you try the following tests (if you have a voltmeter handy)? With nothing connected to the input except the 1k resistor (connected between the input and common), measure the voltage across the resistor. Do you get something close to 2.5 volts? If not, what do you actually read?

Could you also try and find out what the "output pins" of the AP800 actually put out? They could be contact closures, open collector outputs, a voltage, etc).




Guy, thanks for helping me to debug this. My multimeter has a minimum DCV scale of 15V, and when I do as you describe (connect a wire from an input on the SECU16 to a 1k ohm resistor to a common), the needle on my multimeter actually moves from 0 to something slightly to the left of zero. Incidentally, when I measure the resistance across the resistor, the needles shows something between 1,000 and 2,000 ohms.

With regard to what the AP800 puts out, the manual says the following: "Most of the pins on these connector can be programmed to perform any function via a closure to ground." In addition, there are two non-programmable pins that simply output 5Vdc. Here's a link to the manual: http://www.clearone.com/docs/manuals/800-150-001-Rev3.0_AP800Man.pdf

Does this supply any clues?




jerny

If you are using an analog meter and the meter deflects the wrong way try to reverse the leads to check the voltage.




Ah, of course. (Sorry about requesting the voltmeter for dummies instruction.) The minimum scale on my voltmeter is 15V and the needle settles on the 0.1 marker, so that implies 1.5V across the resistor. Guy, does that help?

Top
#18077 - 04/16/07 08:02 AM Re: Supervised inputs on SECU16 [Re: jerny]
Guy Lavoie Administrator Offline
Beyond All Hope
*****

Registered: 12/21/02
Posts: 6548
Loc: Montreal, QC, Canada
It sort of helps, although 1.5 volts is kind of an odd value. Could you measure the voltage with the resistor removed (nothing connected to the input)? This should normally read as 5 volts, and on a 15 volt scale it would be about 1/3rd of the way across the scale. If your scale reading appears to chack out ok this way, then measure it again with the resistor in place. Also make sure that it is indeed a 1k resistor that you have. The color code should be brown, black, red.
_________________________
"If you don't know what you're doing, do it neatly..."

Top
#18078 - 04/16/07 10:23 PM Re: Supervised inputs on SECU16 [Re: Guy Lavoie]
jerny Offline
junior
*

Registered: 03/17/07
Posts: 36
Quote:

It sort of helps, although 1.5 volts is kind of an odd value. Could you measure the voltage with the resistor removed (nothing connected to the input)? This should normally read as 5 volts, and on a 15 volt scale it would be about 1/3rd of the way across the scale. If your scale reading appears to chack out ok this way, then measure it again with the resistor in place. Also make sure that it is indeed a 1k resistor that you have. The color code should be brown, black, red.




Guy, the resistor is indeed brown, black, red. I'm not sure what you mean by measuring the voltage with the resistor removed. Sorry to sound so stupid, but I'm in over my head here. Where do I put the wire, and where do I place the red and black probes from the voltmeter? Thanks for your patience in dealing with my really dumb questions.

Top
#18079 - 04/17/07 07:39 AM Re: Supervised inputs on SECU16 [Re: jerny]
Guy Lavoie Administrator Offline
Beyond All Hope
*****

Registered: 12/21/02
Posts: 6548
Loc: Montreal, QC, Canada
I just mean that I'd like you to remove the external 1k resistor and measure the voltage across the input and common terminals with nothing connected to them. The black probe goes on the common terminal and the red probe on the input. Make sure your voltmeter is set to a DC voltage scale, such as the 15 volt scale you mentioned.
_________________________
"If you don't know what you're doing, do it neatly..."

Top
#18080 - 04/17/07 07:56 PM Re: Supervised inputs on SECU16 [Re: Guy Lavoie]
jerny Offline
junior
*

Registered: 03/17/07
Posts: 36
Guy, I did exactly what you wrote. The scale of my voltmeter is 15V per marker, and when I put the red probe on the input and the black on the common, the needle moved from 0 to the 7/10ths hash mark, indicating 10V (7/10 x 15 = ~10V). What does this mean relative to what you expected?
Top
#18081 - 04/17/07 08:51 PM Re: Supervised inputs on SECU16 [Re: jerny]
Guy Lavoie Administrator Offline
Beyond All Hope
*****

Registered: 12/21/02
Posts: 6548
Loc: Montreal, QC, Canada
Looks like you're not reading the scale correctly or not looking at the right scale, but the important thing is to see if whatever you're reading wihtout the resistor is about twice what you're reading when the 1k resistor is connected across the input.

Now, what happens with the input status in the C-Max status screen when you connect the 1k resistor across the input? Does it go from ON to OFF?

Also, go into the module utilities and get the module parameters again. Tell me what values you get for parameters 2 and 3.
_________________________
"If you don't know what you're doing, do it neatly..."

Top
#18082 - 04/17/07 08:51 PM Re: Supervised inputs on SECU16 [Re: jerny]
jerny Offline
junior
*

Registered: 03/17/07
Posts: 36
By the way, I also went back and re-did the first test: I connected a wire to the input, connected a 1k ohm resistor to the wire, and then put the other end of the resistor into the common. Then I put the red probe from my voltmeter on the wire just before the resistor (on the input side) and the black probe just after the resistor (on the common side). The voltmeter reads slightly less than the 1/10th hash mark, which is 1/10 x 15V = ~1.5V.
Top
#18083 - 04/17/07 08:55 PM Re: Supervised inputs on SECU16 [Re: jerny]
Guy Lavoie Administrator Offline
Beyond All Hope
*****

Registered: 12/21/02
Posts: 6548
Loc: Montreal, QC, Canada
Look for my post just above your last one...
_________________________
"If you don't know what you're doing, do it neatly..."

Top
#18084 - 04/17/07 08:57 PM Re: Supervised inputs on SECU16 [Re: Guy Lavoie]
jerny Offline
junior
*

Registered: 03/17/07
Posts: 36
Guy, to answer your latest question:

I put a wire into the input (in this case input 0), connect the 1k ohm resistor to the wire and put the other end of the resistor into the common. When I then use CMAX to check the on/off value of input 0, it still reads as ON. Per my post just a moment ago, the voltmeter reads 0.1 on the 15DCV scale, which is about 1.5V (roughly 1/6 of the value it read without anything connecting the input and common). Module param 2 = 85 and module param 3 = 170.

Does this provide any clue? Thank you so much for you patience in helping me through this!

Top
#18085 - 04/18/07 08:02 AM Re: Supervised inputs on SECU16 [Re: jerny]
Guy Lavoie Administrator Offline
Beyond All Hope
*****

Registered: 12/21/02
Posts: 6548
Loc: Montreal, QC, Canada
Quote:

... which is about 1.5V (roughly 1/6 of the value it read without anything connecting the input and common).




Although I still can't figure out what you're really reading in terms of an actual voltage value, it looks like the 1k resistor is not pulling down the voltage to half the value as it should.

Is this SECU16 a new unit that you just bought? There have been some reports of incorrectly made SECU16s that have internal pullup resistors of 10k instead of 1k, and I'm wondering if this might be one of these. Do you have 10k resistors handy? These would be color coded as brown, black, orange. If you do, try one of them as the external resistor and see if the input now goes to off status. If you don't have 10k resistors, you could try putting a bunch (like 5 or more)of the 1k resistors you have in series, just for testing. If that seems to work, then I would suggest you get that SECU16 exchanged, or obtain and use 10k resistors for your application.
_________________________
"If you don't know what you're doing, do it neatly..."

Top
#18086 - 04/18/07 10:51 AM Re: Supervised inputs on SECU16 [Re: Guy Lavoie]
jerny Offline
junior
*

Registered: 03/17/07
Posts: 36
Guy, it is a new SECU16 unit that I purchased very recently. There doesn't seem to be a way to attach files to this forum, so can I email you jpegs of the voltmeter readout? I'm pretty sure I'm reading it correctly.

In the meantime, I don't have any 10k ohm resistors, but I'll try to pick them up. However, if the internal pullup resistors on my SECU16 are 10k instead of 1k, would that result in this odd voltmeter readout that I'm getting?

Top
#18087 - 04/18/07 12:03 PM Re: Supervised inputs on SECU16 [Re: jerny]
Guy Lavoie Administrator Offline
Beyond All Hope
*****

Registered: 12/21/02
Posts: 6548
Loc: Montreal, QC, Canada
You can email me pictures if you want. Just click on my name to see my email address in the profile.

Yes, the "odd voltmeter readout" that you're getting (a rather low voltage with the 1k resistor in place) could indicate that the external 1k resistor is dropping only 1/11th of the 5 volts that is being divided by the internal and external resistors. A 10k internal resistor would be dropping the other 10/11ths of the 5 volts.
_________________________
"If you don't know what you're doing, do it neatly..."

Top
#18088 - 04/21/07 01:08 PM Re: Supervised inputs on SECU16 [Re: Guy Lavoie]
jerny Offline
junior
*

Registered: 03/17/07
Posts: 36
Hallelujah! Guy, it works. I used a 10k ohm resistor as you suggested, and when I connect the input 0 to the ground with the resistor in between, the cmax utility shows input 0 as off now! The voltage across measures as about 6V. So does this mean if I just use 10k ohm resistors instead of 1k ohm resistors, everything should work? Or should I go ahead and exchange the unit for a new one? Thanks
Top
#18089 - 04/21/07 04:33 PM Re: Supervised inputs on SECU16 [Re: jerny]
Guy Lavoie Administrator Offline
Beyond All Hope
*****

Registered: 12/21/02
Posts: 6548
Loc: Montreal, QC, Canada
Great that it now works!

As for replacing the module, it depends on you really. From what I can see it can be used this way if you want, as long as the external resistors are 10k.
_________________________
"If you don't know what you're doing, do it neatly..."

Top
#18090 - 04/21/07 10:51 PM Re: Supervised inputs on SECU16 [Re: Guy Lavoie]
jerny Offline
junior
*

Registered: 03/17/07
Posts: 36
Well, I think I'll keep it. Thanks again. Now that you have helped me debug the SECU16, I do have one more question, though. I want to use input 0 to monitor the status of an output pin on my Gentner AP800 device. The output status pins on the AP800 carry 5V when inactive and 0V when active. I'm not sure how to connect a status pin from the AP800 to an input. What I thought I was supposed to do is connect the status pin on the AP800 to one of my SECU16 inputs (say input 0), and then connect a 10k ohm resistor from input 0 to common. When I do this, it seems that input 0 shows up as OFF regardless of the status of the pin from the AP800. Am I wiring it correctly?

Thanks,
Jerny

Top
Page 1 of 3 123>


Moderator:  Dan Smith, Monte G, ADI Tech Support, Guy Lavoie 
Hop to:
Who's Online
0 registered and 49 anonymous users online.
Recent Posts
Ocelot not working
by JPO
11/08/17 06:02 AM
Shout Box

Newest Members
brigiel, vevevie, zhutree, 416, saiqul
3003 Registered Users
Forum Stats
3003 Members
19 Forums
4004 Topics
23442 Posts

Max Online: 132 @ 11/13/16 10:07 AM
November
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
26 27 28 29 30