ADICON Support Forum Applied Digital, Inc.
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#13401 - 03/11/03 04:35 PM Re: Battery Backup
Guy Lavoie Administrator Offline
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Actually, IR will be sent normally and X10 commands will be retried the standard number of times (I think it's 5 tries) due to no echo from the powerline interface, and then given up on, ie: scrapped. You can easily simulate this by just unplugging your TW-523/PSC-05. This is why you might want to have it detect and know about a power failure if you plan on keeping it alive with a UPS, so that a flag could be set and critical X10 commands then be "caught up" on when the power comes back if this is important. You could detect the power failure using a SECU16 input looking for something that's always on or providing a signal when there's power.
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#13402 - 03/11/03 04:45 PM Re: Battery Backup
John Warner Offline
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Thanks Guy.

I'm working hard to minimize "critical" X10 commands by hard-wiring everything I can but a SECU input dedicated to knowing when the power has been off is probably a good idea.

My CMAX routine already does some initialization at power-up so I could just run that same routine after I sense a power restore.

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#13403 - 03/11/03 05:39 PM Re: Battery Backup
Anonymous
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Actually, IR will be sent normally and X10 commands will be retried the standard number of times (I think it's 5 tries) due to no echo from the powerline interface, and then given up on, ie: scrapped. You can easily simulate this by just unplugging your TW-523/PSC-05.

I'm pretty sure the X-10 commands are lost. As soon as the PIC tries to send an X-10 command, it will time-out (reset) due to the missing AC zero cross. The PIC won't even try a resend, it won't remember anything that happened before the reset.

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#13404 - 03/11/03 05:54 PM Re: Battery Backup
Guy Lavoie Administrator Offline
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Makes sense (due to no zero crossing).
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#13405 - 03/12/03 03:56 AM Re: Battery Backup
John Warner Offline
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Loc: Port Perry, Ontario, Canada
And, yet another fascinating question on the subject.

I now have my SpeakEasy on order.

Since it will be connected to powered (PC-type) speakers located throughout the house and have its own AC power supply, there is no need or point to power it in battery backup mode (since it wouldn't work anyway).

What would happen if only the Ocelot and SECU's were powered and an addressed module (the SpeakEasy) was not?

If necessary, I will power it but would prefer not to waste electrons.

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#13406 - 03/12/03 05:27 AM Re: Battery Backup
Guy Lavoie Administrator Offline
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What happens is that the master spends (ie: wastes) a lot of time retrying the module as it polls the bus continuously. Your bus will still work, but very slowly. You can minimize the impact of this somewhat by adjusting your master's parameter 8 to a low value, like 2 or 3 so it doesn't wait as long, but for the little power a speak easy might draw on the UPS, it would be better to have it stay powered.
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#13407 - 03/12/03 07:59 AM Re: Battery Backup
John Warner Offline
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Registered: 01/09/03
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Sounds like the UPS was the right way to go then since my original 12vdc plan wouldn't have done anything for the SpeakEasy (which needs 800ma of 12vac)!

It seems as if the ADI products are VERY CLOSE to providing what's needed for a reasonable roll-your-own security system (with battery backup). I'm wondering if a couple of little "tweaks" to the ADI products with this application in mind would make any sense?

For example, could the Ocelot/Leopard be somehow easily told to temporarily suspend addressing (and, ideally, ignore commands) to certain attached modules? That would allow the user to only supply backup power to the modules necessary for the security application. Likewise, a temporary suspension of all X10 attempts would eliminate unecessary overhead while running "on battery"?

I'm thinking of a bit or parm the user can set under program control which affects these behaviours...

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#13408 - 03/13/03 06:37 AM Re: Battery Backup
John Warner Offline
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Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 834
Loc: Port Perry, Ontario, Canada
Guy:

I don't know if my previous post "snuck through" your watchful eye or not?

Do the ADI product "enhancements" suggested sound possible/feasible or are they fundamentally contrary to the product's design?

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#13409 - 03/13/03 07:06 AM Re: Battery Backup
Guy Lavoie Administrator Offline
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Registered: 12/21/02
Posts: 6548
Loc: Montreal, QC, Canada
I don't know of any way to have the master "ignore" a module once it's detected it at power up. This is certainly a consequence of the polling design philosophy whereby it's always the master that's checking upon slaves and modules. While I can see a few benefits that could be obtained by adding the capability to consider a module offline, I don't think there would be a very wide appeal.

Ignoring X10 commands would be easier since you could just use "skip to" statements to avoid them but I don't see any benefit to doing this.
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