#2803 - 02/20/07 10:10 AM
Re: Ocelot to Xantech
[Re: Guy Lavoie]
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Goofyone
newbie
Registered: 02/19/07
Posts: 6
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Thanks for your reply Guy!
I've taken pictures of the circuit, however my digital camera would not cooperate with zooming in on such a small device, so I utilized a trick another poster had used and placed it on the bed of my scanner.
I added some notations to the pictures as far as the connections are concerned. I also rotated the picture of the back so that the component flow matches that of the picture of the front to make it easier to decipher.
Front:
http://profile.imageshack.us/user/goofyone/images/detail/#96/frontre4.jpg
Back:
http://profile.imageshack.us/user/goofyone/images/detail/#245/backnx6.jpg
Thanks again for your help. Please let me know if you have any questions.
Chris
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#2805 - 02/20/07 01:02 PM
Re: Ocelot to Xantech
[Re: Guy Lavoie]
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Goofyone
newbie
Registered: 02/19/07
Posts: 6
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Thanks for taking a look. In response to your questions:
1-I ordered all my parts from Mouser, and the bag of resistors that I used for the one in question is labeled "2.2 Kohms 1% 1/2W Metal Film Resistors". Does this sound right? There's also the possibilty that when they filled my order something was mis-labeled.
2-I had the hardest time figuring our the direction of the transistors. Does you rule for left to right (E,B,C) apply in all instances? I thought I've seen variations of this (C,B,E) in diagrams on the web. It's a good thing I ordered multiples of everything just in case(I wasn't sure what I would do with all the extras, but I'm sure some other project would arise). I will try and reverse it tonight and try again.
3-Same as #2, but I'm still not sure what you mean by "upside down".
Thanks,
Chris
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#2806 - 02/20/07 01:27 PM
Re: Ocelot to Xantech
[Re: Goofyone]
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Guy Lavoie
Beyond All Hope
Registered: 12/21/02
Posts: 6406
Loc: Montreal, QC, Canada
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1- If it was labeled as 2.2k then that's what it should be, but errors do happen. If you have a multimeter handy, check it out to be sure.
2- Depending on the transistor model, if you look at them from above with the flat part at the 6 o'clock position, it is usually E,B,C or in some cases E,C,B.
3- On a schematic diagram, the arrow designates the emitter on a transistor. In most cases (especially with NPN transistors) they are almost always shown with the emitter at the botton. For PNP transistors, it often happens that the emitter will be at the top ("upside down" as in my diagram) because it is customary to show the positive voltage connections at the top and ground or negative at the bottom.
_________________________
"If you don't know what you're doing, do it neatly..."
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#2807 - 02/23/07 09:21 PM
Re: Ocelot to Xantech
[Re: Guy Lavoie]
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Goofyone
newbie
Registered: 02/19/07
Posts: 6
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Guy,
After removing the first of two transistors to reverse it, I tried to place it back making sure that the emitter was attached to the common ground. I found that to my dismay that the orientation of the transistor was the same direction as the picture. It was then I remembered that I had flipped and rotated the image I posted on the forum so that the flow of the connections on the front would mimic those on the back. In doing this, the emitter and collector of the transistor appear to be reversed, but in fact are not. The picture before I manipulated it looked like this (what I see when I look down on the circuit):
http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/7739/front2pk7.jpg
If you agree that the components appear correct, what should I try/test next?
BTW, I did test my resistor with an multimeter and it did test out at 2.2 Kohms.
Thanks,
Chris
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#2809 - 02/26/07 08:34 PM
Re: Ocelot to Xantech
[Re: Guy Lavoie]
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Goofyone
newbie
Registered: 02/19/07
Posts: 6
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The transistors I used were a NPN 2N4401 and a PNP 2N3906 that I ordered from Mouser. I do have a multimeter if there are any tests you could suggest I try.
Thanks,
Chris
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#2810 - 02/26/07 09:08 PM
Re: Ocelot to Xantech
[Re: Goofyone]
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Guy Lavoie
Beyond All Hope
Registered: 12/21/02
Posts: 6406
Loc: Montreal, QC, Canada
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I've never tried it with an actual 2N4401 but it does look like a good general purpose NPN transistor, and the pinout is the same as a 2N3904.
As a test with the voltmeter do the following:
- On the Xantech side, leave the +12 and ground connected, but disconnect the signal line (labeled as "common" on your first picture). Leave the Ocelot completely disconnected throughout these tests.
- Measure the voltage between ground and the 2N4401's collector. You should see close to + 12v. Leave your voltmeter connected here.
- Now get a piece of wire and connect the Ocelot side "+5v" terminal to the Xantech +12v wire (don't worry, you won't blow anything, because of the 2.2k resistor). Now the voltmeter should show about + 0.2v if the 2N4401 is "turning on" as it should with the simulated Ocelot signal.
- If the above tests worked ok then move your voltmeter's probes to measure the voltage between ground and the 2N3906's collector instead.
- Again, perform the two tests above. With nothing connected to the Ocelot side +5v terminal, you should read close to 0 v. With the Ocelot side +5v terminal connected to the Xantech +12v terminal, the voltage should rise to close to +12 v.
Let me know what you find.
_________________________
"If you don't know what you're doing, do it neatly..."
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#2811 - 02/27/07 09:37 PM
Re: Ocelot to Xantech
[Re: Guy Lavoie]
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Goofyone
newbie
Registered: 02/19/07
Posts: 6
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Well I'm glad to report that my circuit passed all of your tests. I got up the nerve and attached my circuit through a tangle of aligator clips to the Ocelot and Xantech equipment and SUCCESS! I'm not sure what was incorrect the first time, unless the transistor I replaced was bad or one of its solder joints was faulty.
At any rate, Guy, I really appreciate your patience and willlingness to give newbie a helping hand.
Chris
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#2813 - 11/20/07 09:46 PM
Re: Ocelot to Xantech
[Re: Dennis Rossi]
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Bent
active contributor
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 130
Loc: Manitoba, Canada
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Sorry for resurecting an old thread, but I thought my question might be relevant to more than just me,
I've sourced all the components (or their equivalents, as according to some of our communication techs), but I don't have access to a prototyping board (or perf-board). Any substitutes for a board??
Ben
Edited by Bent (11/20/07 09:47 PM)
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#19099 - 12/06/07 07:53 PM
Re: Ocelot to Xantech
[Re: Bent]
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drich
newbie
Registered: 05/07/03
Posts: 15
Loc: San Jose, CA
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I started building this thing over a year ago and still haven't completed it (no free time), but I'm doing it w/o a perf board. Instead of taking up space with more components, I am just building the whole thing in-line as part of the cable that will connect my connecting block and my old CPU-XA.
I'm going to try and pull this off of the back burner, as the emitter keeps falling off of my CPU-XA and I'm tired of taping it back on. I'll post some pictures when I get it finished and tested, and before I enclose the whole thing in shrink tubing.
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#19219 - 01/04/08 05:05 PM
Re: Ocelot to Xantech
[Re: Guy Lavoie]
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drich
newbie
Registered: 05/07/03
Posts: 15
Loc: San Jose, CA
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Ok, now that I almost have this thing built (I just have to find my spool of wire I use for my Xantech connecting blocks), I just realized that this only solves half of my problem...
Has anyone done anything to connect in the other direction? I would really like to get rid of the emitter I have taped onto my CPU-XA. What would it take to go from a Xantech connecting block to the IR-In on the CPU-XA?
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#21582 - 01/13/10 07:23 PM
Re: Ocelot to Xantech
[Re: Guy Lavoie]
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iceberg5xx
newbie
Registered: 01/13/10
Posts: 2
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Do you mean that you want to mix the outputs of both your original Ocelot and now your new slave Leopard together and send them to your Xantech system? That answer to that is: maybe... The usual issue with ADI controllers is that they don't have a hardwired common ground between them. The chances of success would be good if the two controllers use seperate, floating power supplies. If the new Leopard is used with the wall wart that comes with it and nothing else is sharing that wall wart (and nothing should, because there is only enough power for the Leopard) then the two units will establish a common ground through the IR out's ground connection. To mix two IR outs together, you would need to add isolation diodes to safely isolate the two IR out signals. Going back to my original ASCII diagram, it would look like this:
|------------|----------------o to Xantech +12v
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> |
< 1k /
> 1k |v
Ocelot |--mwmw----| 2N3906 (PNP)
IR out / |
(tip) |/ --mwmw---|>|----o to Xantech input
o-|>|-+-mwmw----| 2N3904 | 470 1N914
| 2.2k |^ (NPN) |
| >
o-|>|-+ | < 1k
Leo IR out(tip) | >
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diodes = 1N914 | |
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o------------------|-----------|----------------o to Xantech common
Ocelot and Leo
IR out (ring)
note: the ^ and v designate the transistor's emitters (ascii art!)
Guy, a couple of times you mention concerns about ground connections. Should I be concerned?
A little background:
I'm planning to use your circuit(thanks) to Amplify the output of a Logitech Harmony 900 Blaster emitter port (which I believe to be 5v, how would I test with a multimeter to be sure?) to 12V to integrate it with my existing Xantech IR Block/Bus. I did a simple test of connecting the emitter out put of the Harmony to the IR IN and GROUND on the Xantech and my devices seemed to be controlled properly. I thought about only putting the diode in series and calling it a day, but figured your amplifier was cleaner and likely would reduce the chance for future frustrations, aka component failures. I'm I increasing the "wear" on the Logitech IR emitting unit if it is really only running at 5V, due to the Xantech load?
Now comes my question about ground concerns.
IR Bus Devices:
Harmony 900 - 5V wall wart (no ground)
Xantech Connecting Block and Reciever - 12V wall wart (no Ground)
Channel Plus 550BID 12v IR and Cable Distribution - 12V wall wart (no Ground)
**Ground concern is this device also distributes cable tv, so it may have grounding some were along the line, example connected to a 3 prong connect TV.
Until a few days ago the IR OUT of the 550BID and GRN were connected to my Xantech, I disconnected it to test the hardwired Harmony. But I would like to connect both back to Xantech, with diodes to isolate the inputs from each other as they enter the Xantech.
Summary of my questions, thank in advanced.
*How do I confirm the Harmony emitter is out putting 5v?
*If it is 5V but I happy with the results, should I still amplify using your design?
*When connecting the Channel Plus 550BID backup, Is there reason to be concerned related to Ground, if so what?
Thanks,
Bobby
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#21584 - 01/14/10 06:05 PM
Re: Ocelot to Xantech
[Re: iceberg5xx]
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Guy Lavoie
Beyond All Hope
Registered: 12/21/02
Posts: 6406
Loc: Montreal, QC, Canada
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I'm planning to use your circuit(thanks) to Amplify the output of a Logitech Harmony 900 Blaster emitter port (which I believe to be 5v, how would I test with a multimeter to be sure?)
You cannot really tell with a multimeter. You really need an oscilloscope to see the signal pulses.
I did a simple test of connecting the emitter out put of the Harmony to the IR IN and GROUND on the Xantech and my devices seemed to be controlled properly. I thought about only putting the diode in series and calling it a day, but figured your amplifier was cleaner and likely would reduce the chance for future frustrations, aka component failures. I'm I increasing the "wear" on the Logitech IR emitting unit if it is really only running at 5V, due to the Xantech load?
If it seems to work ok, then I wouldn't bother with the amplifier. It means that the signal level and polarity are ok. As the saying goes: If it ain't broke, don't fix it. The amplifier is a level shifter more then anything else. Plus, the IR emitter is designed to drive a LED, so it can certainly drive a circuit input, which would normally has a higher impedance (ie: creates less of a load). Using the series diode would be a good idea.
Now comes my question about ground concerns.
IR Bus Devices:
Harmony 900 - 5V wall wart (no ground)
Xantech Connecting Block and Reciever - 12V wall wart (no Ground)
Channel Plus 550BID 12v IR and Cable Distribution - 12V wall wart (no Ground)
**Ground concern is this device also distributes cable tv, so it may have grounding some were along the line, example connected to a 3 prong connect TV.
Until a few days ago the IR OUT of the 550BID and GRN were connected to my Xantech, I disconnected it to test the hardwired Harmony. But I would like to connect both back to Xantech, with diodes to isolate the inputs from each other as they enter the Xantech.
Summary of my questions, thank in advanced.
*How do I confirm the Harmony emitter is out putting 5v?
As mentioned earlier, only a scope can really tell you for sure.
*If it is 5V but I happy with the results, should I still amplify using your design?
I wouldn't bother with the amplifier. The idea behind the amplifier was to change the level of the Ocelot's or Leopard's to 12 volts and reverse the polarity, ceause this is what the Xantech bloack wanted. If only the polarity would have been correct but the level too low, the signal would have been weak but possibly still worked. But you are talking about a Logitech Harmony 900 Blaster, not an ADI controller. This device is obviously different at least regarding the signal polarity. If it works ok and reliably for you, then it seems you're ok.
*When connecting the Channel Plus 550BID backup, Is there reason to be concerned related to Ground, if so what?
Thanks,
Bobby
The only real concern is if you have several devices connected together and that two or more of them have a ground. In theory, if all devices have no ground or only one of them does, then there is no problem.
_________________________
"If you don't know what you're doing, do it neatly..."
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