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#23301 - 11/13/12 01:56 PM Data Bus communication with Relay 8's dropping out
Deane Johnson Offline
enthusiast


Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 204
Loc: Omaha, Nebraska
I have two Relay 8 modules and one SECU16I on my Adnet bus. It's been in place and operating for more than 10 years.

From time to time over the years, the Adnet bus appears to go dead, that is the blinking light on the modules goes out and there is no function. If the relays are energized when it goes out, they seem to stay energized.

To cure the problem, I pull the AC cord out, cutting power to one of the modules which seems to clear it. When I plug it back in, the Adnet LED starts blinking again and the system operates.

This was a rare occurrence over the years, but in the past few days it has happened more often, like 2 or 3 times in a day.

I have no idea what tests to run to try and isolate the issue. Any suggestions.

Thanks

Deane Johnson

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#23351 - 11/30/12 09:39 AM Re: Data Bus communication with Relay 8's dropping out [Re: Deane Johnson]
Deane Johnson Offline
enthusiast


Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 204
Loc: Omaha, Nebraska
I'm thinking with this issue being a hard one to track down, I should probably give up on Ocelot and go with something like this to control my blinds. Any thoughts from anybody:

http://www.codecoretechnologies.com/content/Quality%20Kits%20QK108%20Driver.ashx

http://www.electronickits.com/kit/complete/elec/ck1610.htm

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#23352 - 11/30/12 10:32 AM Re: Data Bus communication with Relay 8's dropping out [Re: Deane Johnson]
ADI Tech Support Moderator Offline
old hand


Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 721
Loc: Branson West, MO
What is the rating of the power supply you are using to power the rly8xas?

Kevin Barrett
ADI Tech SUPPORT

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#23353 - 11/30/12 11:33 AM Re: Data Bus communication with Relay 8's dropping out [Re: ADI Tech Support]
Deane Johnson Offline
enthusiast


Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 204
Loc: Omaha, Nebraska
Each module is powered by it's own DVE brand 12vdc, 1.2 amp regulated power supply.

This problem has existed for years, but previously only happened every 3 or 4 months. A quick removal of the power for a couple of seconds fixed it.

Now, it's happening with nearly every use, and removing the power is a lengthy process of repeating it over and over to get it to get the bus to start blinking again.

Last night, something changed. The comm bus lights changed from their usual pattern of a burst about every second to a flashing on and off once about every second. At this moment, the relays are operating normally for the first time in days.

The comm bus light on the Ocelot itself continues to blink at the normal mode of a burst every second or so.

By burst, I mean a quick succession of blinks, then a 1 second pause.

It's strange that the Ocelot appears to be blinking normally, but all three modules connected are blinking 1 blink every second.

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#23354 - 11/30/12 11:40 AM Re: Data Bus communication with Relay 8's dropping out [Re: Deane Johnson]
Guy Lavoie Administrator Offline
Beyond All Hope
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Registered: 12/21/02
Posts: 6548
Loc: Montreal, QC, Canada
Have you tried replacing all the comms chips? Just an inexpensive idea that could be worth trying, in case one of them is somehow flakey.
_________________________
"If you don't know what you're doing, do it neatly..."

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#23355 - 11/30/12 11:58 AM Re: Data Bus communication with Relay 8's dropping out [Re: Guy Lavoie]
Deane Johnson Offline
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Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 204
Loc: Omaha, Nebraska
I haven't done anything except pull the power plug.

I would agree that replacing the chips would be a good idea as a step toward isolating the problem.

I'm not much of a techie with solid state stuff, so can you guide me to the right chips, and where I should get them.

Deane

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#23356 - 11/30/12 12:04 PM Re: Data Bus communication with Relay 8's dropping out [Re: Deane Johnson]
Guy Lavoie Administrator Offline
Beyond All Hope
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Registered: 12/21/02
Posts: 6548
Loc: Montreal, QC, Canada
These are 75176 bus transceiver chips (8 pins and in sockets). They're something like $1 apiece or so. Get some of those (one per module) and swap out the existing ones with the new ones, and give it a try.

A local supplier would be best (and least expensive), otherwise you can get them online at places like Digikey, etc
_________________________
"If you don't know what you're doing, do it neatly..."

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#23357 - 11/30/12 12:55 PM Re: Data Bus communication with Relay 8's dropping out [Re: Guy Lavoie]
ADI Tech Support Moderator Offline
old hand


Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 721
Loc: Branson West, MO
It is possible that it is comms chips. It is also possible that the voltage regulators on the rly8xas are over heating due to the PS being 12v instead of 9v DC. Try taking the tops off of the rly8xas and see if the lockups stop or happen less often. If it does, reduce the power supply powering the rly8xa down to 9vdc.

Kevin Barrett
ADI Tech Support.

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#23358 - 11/30/12 02:46 PM Re: Data Bus communication with Relay 8's dropping out [Re: ADI Tech Support]
Deane Johnson Offline
enthusiast


Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 204
Loc: Omaha, Nebraska
Covers off, 10 chips on order. I'll report back when something changes.

Thanks for the suggestions. Very helpful.

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#23383 - 12/12/12 07:03 AM Re: Data Bus communication with Relay 8's dropping out [Re: Deane Johnson]
Deane Johnson Offline
enthusiast


Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 204
Loc: Omaha, Nebraska
UPDATE:

The 75176 chips have been changed in both Relay 8 modules. No change whatsoever in performance.

Where I am now:

I can activate all of the relays at once in a normal manner.

Several of the relays on module 1 will activate in pairs as they should. Another pair on module 1 will cause a pair on module 2 to also activate even though the pair on module 2 have received no command to do so.

The relays on module 2 do not activate individually when commanded to do so, but a pair of them do when activating relays on module 1 as described above. They also activate on module 2 when all relays on both modules are commanded to activate.

The comm light is blinking different than it used to. Previously, it would emit a short burst or series of tightly spaced blinks about a second long. It would do this about every 2 seconds. Now, it emits 1 blink about every 2 seconds in a rhythm.

The SECU-16I is connected to the comm line, but is not powered up.

Is this possibly an issue with the Ocelot itself?

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#23384 - 12/12/12 07:05 AM Re: Data Bus communication with Relay 8's dropping out [Re: ADI Tech Support]
Deane Johnson Offline
enthusiast


Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 204
Loc: Omaha, Nebraska
 Originally Posted By: ADI Tech Support
It is possible that it is comms chips. It is also possible that the voltage regulators on the rly8xas are over heating due to the PS being 12v instead of 9v DC. Try taking the tops off of the rly8xas and see if the lockups stop or happen less often. If it does, reduce the power supply powering the rly8xa down to 9vdc.

Kevin Barrett
ADI Tech Support.


Kevin, I doubt it's a heat issue. This setup has been running for over 10 years with no heat issue that I know of. Covers have been off for the past several weeks.

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#23385 - 12/12/12 07:32 AM Re: Data Bus communication with Relay 8's dropping out [Re: Deane Johnson]
ADI Tech Support Moderator Offline
old hand


Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 721
Loc: Branson West, MO
The Ocelot has the same communications chip as the modules do. Try replacing the communications chip in the Ocelot as well. Also, try terminating the network by placing a 150 ohm resistor across COMs A and B on the last module in the line.

Kevin Barrett
ADI Tech Support

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#23386 - 12/12/12 07:56 AM Re: Data Bus communication with Relay 8's dropping out [Re: ADI Tech Support]
Guy Lavoie Administrator Offline
Beyond All Hope
*****

Registered: 12/21/02
Posts: 6548
Loc: Montreal, QC, Canada
Have you tried redoing the autoaddress procedure? Sounds like module 2 is not properly responding to bus commands.
_________________________
"If you don't know what you're doing, do it neatly..."

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#23387 - 12/12/12 08:03 AM Re: Data Bus communication with Relay 8's dropping out [Re: ADI Tech Support]
Deane Johnson Offline
enthusiast


Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 204
Loc: Omaha, Nebraska
Mine is soldered in. Is it a bit tricky to change?
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#23388 - 12/12/12 08:15 AM Re: Data Bus communication with Relay 8's dropping out [Re: Deane Johnson]
Deane Johnson Offline
enthusiast


Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 204
Loc: Omaha, Nebraska
165 ohms of resister across the line doesn't have any effect.
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#23389 - 12/12/12 08:17 AM Re: Data Bus communication with Relay 8's dropping out [Re: Guy Lavoie]
Deane Johnson Offline
enthusiast


Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 204
Loc: Omaha, Nebraska
 Originally Posted By: Guy Lavoie
Have you tried redoing the autoaddress procedure? Sounds like module 2 is not properly responding to bus commands.


I have not. I will try that.

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#23390 - 12/12/12 08:29 AM Re: Data Bus communication with Relay 8's dropping out [Re: Deane Johnson]
ADI Tech Support Moderator Offline
old hand


Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 721
Loc: Branson West, MO
The communications chip should not be soldered on. It is right next to the RJ-11 telephone type jack.

Kevin Barrett
ADI Tech Support

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#23391 - 12/12/12 08:56 AM Re: Data Bus communication with Relay 8's dropping out [Re: ADI Tech Support]
Deane Johnson Offline
enthusiast


Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 204
Loc: Omaha, Nebraska
 Originally Posted By: ADI Tech Support
The communications chip should not be soldered on. It is right next to the RJ-11 telephone type jack.

Kevin Barrett
ADI Tech Support

Mine is soldered in. It has two little jumper clips right below it and a telephone jack to the left.

Initial test indicate I have this working. The auto addressing of the modules wasn't going well, so I reloaded the Executive file. That seems to have changed things.

The comm light is now blinking as it used to, that is a burst series then silence for a second or two.

The system relays appear to be operating normally as I write this.

I am wondering if it was the Executive file all along.

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#23392 - 12/12/12 06:24 PM Re: Data Bus communication with Relay 8's dropping out [Re: Deane Johnson]
Guy Lavoie Administrator Offline
Beyond All Hope
*****

Registered: 12/21/02
Posts: 6548
Loc: Montreal, QC, Canada
Time will tell... Do tell us!
_________________________
"If you don't know what you're doing, do it neatly..."

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#23404 - 12/19/12 06:14 AM Re: Data Bus communication with Relay 8's dropping out [Re: Guy Lavoie]
Deane Johnson Offline
enthusiast


Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 204
Loc: Omaha, Nebraska
It's now been 1 week since this returned to proper operation and there have been no failures. Since it operates the blackout blinds for the home theater, it gets used at least one down/up cycle per day.

I wish I knew what fixed it. New chips in the Relay 8 Modules, re-addressing the modules, reloading the exec file all were done. One of those things worked, I just don't know which one.

I'll report again upon a failure, or at 1-month.

Deane

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