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#22547 - 06/18/11 12:44 PM SECU16 inputs don't respond
dc Offline
newbie


Registered: 10/24/05
Posts: 22
I just replaced my Ocelot with a new one because the serial port on my old one went out, possibly due to lightning. I have two SECU16s and one SECU16-I connected. All modules are correctly discovered and addressed by auto-address.

I cannot get the inputs to change on any of the modules. I jumper across the inputs and nothing changes in the module parameters. For example, if I jumper across input 1 and common, I would expect to see parameter 10 for that module go to 0. It doesn't. It stays high like 253 or 254.

I would suspect that possibly the same surge that killed the Ocelot also got all the downstream modules but the COMM light is flashing rapidly like it's supposed to. I can activate the relays just fine. It's just the inputs that aren't working.

Any suggestions would be most appreciated.
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#22548 - 06/18/11 02:53 PM Re: SECU16 inputs don't respond [Re: dc]
Guy Lavoie Administrator Offline
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Posts: 6406
Loc: Montreal, QC, Canada
So you're saying that even if you connect some inputs directly to common and then retrieve module parameters, the parameters still show values like 253 or 254?

It could be the input mux chips that got blown (if you had a lightning strike). These are cmos 14051 analog mux chips and cost very little.
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#22549 - 06/18/11 04:17 PM Re: SECU16 inputs don't respond [Re: Guy Lavoie]
dc Offline
newbie


Registered: 10/24/05
Posts: 22
I don't re-select "retrieve module parameters" again. The window is open and I'm watching the parameters. Do I need to close the window and re-open it to see the state change?

Is the 14051 chip a socketed chip or soldered on?

Thanks for the quick weekend response.
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#22550 - 06/18/11 04:58 PM Re: SECU16 inputs don't respond [Re: dc]
Guy Lavoie Administrator Offline
Beyond All Hope
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Registered: 12/21/02
Posts: 6406
Loc: Montreal, QC, Canada
The parameter values will not change in real time. You need to "retrieve module parameters" every time to update the data on screen. This can be slow, so instead you should try a C-Max test program using the IF Module/Param command like this:

IF module #1 SECU16 Analog 0 < 256
THEN Load data to variable #10
IF module #1 SECU16 Analog 1 < 256
THEN Load data to variable #11
...

Then monitor the values of variables 10, 11 (or whichever ones you use) in almost real time with the Controller utilities "Debug Timers and Variables".
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"If you don't know what you're doing, do it neatly..."

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#22551 - 06/18/11 06:15 PM Re: SECU16 inputs don't respond [Re: Guy Lavoie]
dc Offline
newbie


Registered: 10/24/05
Posts: 22
Ahhh! Maybe it is working. One more question: if I don't care to monitor the actual wires connecting my sensors to the SECU16, do I need to use the 1K resistors? I am thinking that without the resistors, the value should be near zero when the circuit is closed and near 255 when it's open. Is that correct?
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#22552 - 06/18/11 06:50 PM Re: SECU16 inputs don't respond [Re: dc]
Guy Lavoie Administrator Offline
Beyond All Hope
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Registered: 12/21/02
Posts: 6406
Loc: Montreal, QC, Canada
If the outside circuit is actually putting out a voltage then yes, you don't need the 1k resistors. But if the outside circuit is only giving you a contact closure or a varying resistance, then the 1k resistor can come in handy as a load in some cases. It really depends on what you're connecting to the input.
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#22553 - 06/18/11 07:02 PM Re: SECU16 inputs don't respond [Re: Guy Lavoie]
dc Offline
newbie


Registered: 10/24/05
Posts: 22
OK, thanks. I'll experiment with the various inputs. They are simple dry contacts but I don't know what the resistance is. Thank you for the fast response.
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#22554 - 06/18/11 07:16 PM Re: SECU16 inputs don't respond [Re: dc]
Guy Lavoie Administrator Offline
Beyond All Hope
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Registered: 12/21/02
Posts: 6406
Loc: Montreal, QC, Canada
Dry contacts are essentially 0 ohms... The idea with the 1k resistor and jumpering for supervised mode is that the module will latch (remember) even a very short contact closure and will respond to it much faster. Looking for an analog value is slower and short changes can get missed. Analog values are good for reading slowly changing things like temperatures, levels, etc where speed is not important.
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"If you don't know what you're doing, do it neatly..."

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#22555 - 06/18/11 07:49 PM Re: SECU16 inputs don't respond [Re: Guy Lavoie]
dc Offline
newbie


Registered: 10/24/05
Posts: 22
I put a resister in the circuit and it didn't help. I swapped the 14051 chip with one from an old SECU16 and now it works. So, apparently my chips are bad. Where can I get some new chips? I only have one spare so I need two more.
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#22556 - 06/19/11 12:27 PM Re: SECU16 inputs don't respond [Re: dc]
Guy Lavoie Administrator Offline
Beyond All Hope
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Registered: 12/21/02
Posts: 6406
Loc: Montreal, QC, Canada
They should be available anywhere you can buy integrated circuits. If you cannot find a local source, there are online suppliers like Digikey. You'll want the DIP (dual inline package) version:

http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=MC14051BCPGOS-ND
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#22557 - 06/20/11 07:51 AM Re: SECU16 inputs don't respond [Re: Guy Lavoie]
dc Offline
newbie


Registered: 10/24/05
Posts: 22
Thanks again for the rapid responses. Very impressive and appreciated, especially considering that it was a weekend.

I have ordered some replacement 14051 chips from Mouser. I feel pretty confident that will solve my problem.

I have two dead SECU16s that I would like to repair as spares if I can. I ordered the MC14051 and SN75176 chips from Mouser. Can I purchase the SECU16A chips from you? I don't know that they are bad but if the chips aren't really expensive, I would like to replace them also so that all the socketed chips are new. Maybe then I'll have "like new" modules.
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#22558 - 06/20/11 08:03 AM Re: SECU16 inputs don't respond [Re: dc]
ADI Tech Support Moderator Offline
addict


Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 608
Loc: Branson West, MO
You can get them from us here at Applied Digital, Inc. Call us at 417-272-0761.

Kevin Barrett
ADI Tech Support
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#22561 - 06/23/11 01:49 PM Re: SECU16 inputs don't respond [Re: ADI Tech Support]
dc Offline
newbie


Registered: 10/24/05
Posts: 22
I got the replacement chips for my SECU modules and all is working well now. Thank you again for the great support. Saved me a ton of money not having to replace all four modules.

I would like to send my original Ocelot in for repair (the one with the soldered on serial chip). What is the procedure for that? Do I need to call for an RMA number?

Edited by dc (06/23/11 01:54 PM)
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#22562 - 06/23/11 01:51 PM Re: SECU16 inputs don't respond [Re: dc]
Guy Lavoie Administrator Offline
Beyond All Hope
*****

Registered: 12/21/02
Posts: 6406
Loc: Montreal, QC, Canada
Either call Kevin at the number he posted above, or send an email to adiinfo@appdig.com
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#22873 - 01/09/12 06:06 PM Re: SECU16 inputs don't respond [Re: dc]
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