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#20713 - 01/02/09 01:07 PM RLY8/SECU16 Losing Communications (Lock-up)
LarryAZ Offline
newbie


Registered: 09/28/06
Posts: 21
Hello.

I have had an Ocelot connected to a SECU16, working perfectly for a couple years now.

Recently I added a RLY8-XA module to the system in order to control some higher current devices. I am having trouble with the RLY8 and SECU16 being locked-up when running the RLY8 for any time. It happens pretty quickly when closing and opening relays on the RLY8. A power reset to these 2 modules (powered together, but separate from the Ocelot) gets them back in the game until running something on the RLY8 again. Operation of the SECU16 does not cause any problems.

Here is how I connected things up:

RLY1 NO -> Water heater #1 recirc pump (110 VAC, 0.02 hp)
RLY2 NO -> Water heater #2 recirc pump (110 VAC, 0.02 hp)
RLY3 NO -> Water heater #1 power control relay (110 VAC coil)
RLY4 NO -> Water heater #2 power control relay (110 VAC coil)
RLY5 NO -> Hi pressure mister pump control relay (110 VAC coil)
RLY6 NO -> Mister Zone #1 control valve (110 VAC solenoid coil)
RLY7 NO -> Mister Zone #2 control valve (110 VAC solenoid coil)
RLY8 NO -> Mister Zone #3 control valve (110 VAC solenoid coil)

All RLY8 relay "commons" are connected together and to L1 (hot) of the circuit that is used by the pumps and relays. (This is not the circuit that powers the Ocelot, SECU16, nor the RLY8).

All of the devices get their neutral from the same circuit as the hot.

The DC power for the RLY8 comes directly from a SECU16 which is powered separately from the Ocelot.

The COMMS come from the Ocelot to the SECU16 (addr 0), then to the RLY8 (addr 1). I do not have a resistor on any of the COMMS.

Can anyone tell me what might be causing the problem? I've read some about putting a 150-ohm resistor on the last module, and will do that asap, but what about the rest of the wiring? Does my scheme appear acceptable?

Thanks in advance for any tips!

Larry



Edited by LarryAZ (01/02/09 02:28 PM)

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#20714 - 01/02/09 05:28 PM Re: RLY8/SECU16 Losing Communications (Lock-up) [Re: LarryAZ]
Guy Lavoie Administrator Offline
Beyond All Hope
*****

Registered: 12/21/02
Posts: 6401
Loc: Montreal, QC, Canada
What exactly do you mean by the RLY8XA and the SECU16 being "locked up"? Does the Comms LED on the Ocelot and modules change to a slower blink or none at all? Does the SECU16 stop to respond altogether? Chances are one or more of the loads being switched by the RLY8XA is causing a voltage spike in the module and inducing noise on the bus which can crash it. Do you notice if it happens more when one of the loads is being switched off instead of on?

Do a search for "snubber" and "MOV" on this forum to see other discussions about this kind of problem.
_________________________
"If you don't know what you're doing, do it neatly..."

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#20718 - 01/03/09 09:25 AM Re: RLY8/SECU16 Losing Communications (Lock-up) [Re: Guy Lavoie]
LarryAZ Offline
newbie


Registered: 09/28/06
Posts: 21
Thanks Guy for the quick response....

When I fire a relay or two on the RLY8XA it locks up the system from proper operation. The LED's illuminate as follows:

Ocelot:
Active - 4 quick blinks, then about 3 seconds pause, repeats
COMMS - Solid

SECU16:
Active - 1 blink about every 4 seconds
COMMS - Solid

RLY8XA:
Active - Solid
COMMS - Solid

I can't really tell whether it is more likely to happen switching on or off the load.

All of the loads are inductive, either motors or relays so I suppose noise is the likely cause. I actually thought the RLY8XA had a transorb built into each relay.

Ok, I'll check out the posts, and see what I can come up with.

Thanks!

Larry

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#20719 - 01/03/09 09:57 AM Re: RLY8/SECU16 Losing Communications (Lock-up) [Re: LarryAZ]
Guy Lavoie Administrator Offline
Beyond All Hope
*****

Registered: 12/21/02
Posts: 6401
Loc: Montreal, QC, Canada
If your RLY8XA is relatively new, it probably has the MOVs built-in. You will still want to read those other threads though.
_________________________
"If you don't know what you're doing, do it neatly..."

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#20720 - 01/03/09 12:37 PM Re: RLY8/SECU16 Losing Communications (Lock-up) [Re: Guy Lavoie]
LarryAZ Offline
newbie


Registered: 09/28/06
Posts: 21
Yeah, it appears to; right behind each realy's terminal block.

I'm searching for a snubber source now. Don't feel like doing a bunch of soldering (resistors-capacitors) for a minimum of 8 relays.

Thanks.

Larry

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#20767 - 01/14/09 07:08 PM Re: RLY8/SECU16 Losing Communications (Lock-up) [Re: LarryAZ]
LarryAZ Offline
newbie


Registered: 09/28/06
Posts: 21
ok, installed the following snubbers:

Allied Stock #
317-0077

Mfr Part #
SNUB0000

RC Snubber Noise and ARC Suppressor, Max Line Volt: 250 Vrms

[url=http://alliedelec.com][/url]

It's bullet proof now! No a lock up since. Only thing is these snubbers are $6 each. That really adds to the price per point on this module!

Thanks Guy for the help.

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#21152 - 06/15/09 05:43 AM Re: RLY8/SECU16 Losing Communications (Lock-up) [Re: LarryAZ]
fagor Offline
newbie


Registered: 01/16/08
Posts: 15
Hi!

Just in case someone has the same problems, wants to prevent them or is looking for a cheaper solution:
I had nearly the same problems. My modules lost adressation every 2-3 weeks and it took me several months to find out, that the RLY8XA is the source of my problem.
Now I use a SECU16 with 8 additional relays.
The advantage is that I now have 8 additional Inputs and the SECU16 is much cheaper than the RLY8XA (even if I add the price for the relays to the SECU16-price).

;-)
fagor

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